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Does the public care?: |
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Vicar Senior Member Joined: 02 Sep 2004 No. of posts: 1181  View other posts by Vicar |
Posted: 18 Feb 2011 At SARG, we put quite a lot of effort into educating the public, in an attempt to improve the public attitude towards herps. Trouble is, we don't know how well we're doing, and whether we're getting better at it! So, we've put together a 60-second survey to assess knowledge and attitudes. It's Surrey-specific at the moment, but we might make this national. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/DQG3SC8 Please check out the survey, and post any thoughts on this thread. Cheers, Steve Steve Langham - Chairman 
Surrey Amphibian & Reptile Group (SARG). |
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Mark_b Senior Member Joined: 26 Jun 2008 No. of posts: 79 View other posts by Mark_b |
Posted: 18 Feb 2011 Really good idea Steve! Seems to cover all the bases, although I would be interested in knowing which amphibian and reptile species the public have actually seen.
edit ... and maybe asking what activities they are undertaking / where they are when they do see any herps ... garden, walking, etc etc 
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ben rigsby Senior Member Joined: 27 Apr 2010 No. of posts: 337 View other posts by ben rigsby |
Posted: 19 Feb 2011 hi guys 
i totally agree with mark - great idea and very pertinently posed questions steve. unlike many here im no expert but i cant think of anything id add. 
surprised this hasnt been done before really. obviously, we need to know where to target education re herps and we cant do that without first finding out where it is lacking. although id imagine the same old chestnuts will probably need addressing yet again - snakes and frogs are slimy, adders "dangerous" and best avoided (the endless tv progs always focusing on the same old aspects of snake ecology dont help - venom toxicity, fang length, strike speeds - "the most deadly" etc. they reinforce feelings among the public that snakes are cold-blooded, ruthless killing machines quite unlike us and therefore less worthy of human sympathy or interest than "cute" or charismatic fellow mammals like badgers, foxes or otters - which are much more commonly featured as documentary subjects. addressing this media inbalance would help. despite the internet, the TV is still the primary educational tool for many older people or those with only a passing interest. its outrageous (given the decline of herps, bats etc) that we seldom get (for example) progs highlighting the worrying decline of bat species, the scarcity of many native reptiles/ their habitats, or interesting stories like the the events that led to the Pool Frog reintro or the controversial prescence of alien species like Podarcis or bull frogs. when did you last see footage showing the beauty of a breeding male sand lizard or the mesmeric, intricate wonder of palmate newt courtship as a spectacle etc etc. yet these things are rarely given air time. even on stations like animal planet. despite the fact that our herps plights desperately need the exposure and theres plenty to engage the more casual viewers interest if programme-makers look. newts are still commonly mistaken for lizards, people still think garden ponds stocked with fish AND amphibians is ok, that toads are ugly and therefore repugnant, uninteresting and unwelcome, there is still much ignorance of the usefulness of garden amphibians, slow-worms etc as pest controllers, the benefits to native herps/wildlife of planting indigenous flora in gardens instead of exotics, the worrying threats currently posed by habitat loss/fragmentation, diseases such as chytrid, the world-wide decline herp decline etc etc. it would be great to see a SPRINGWATCH type magazine show, offering herp gardening tips and news etc. not bill oddie hosting though - how about AGILIS and Gemma instead? 
i hope you do go national with this steve. i would certainly be more than happy to get neighbours, work colleagues etc to complete this questionairre. best of luck and thanks for posting! ben Diversity. |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090  View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 20 Feb 2011 Hi Steve, First impression, bit like one of those market research surveys, the questions are clearly targeted to gain the information you require rather than making it fun. Sex it up a bit and provide the participant with some feedback such as on the multi-choice questions with a specific answer a score would be good. I agree with Mark, probe them for when and where they encounter herps so that you can gain an insight to the relevance of herps in the publics lives. Otherwise good stuff, but in general it's pretty easy to get the public on side, get 'em while they are young. I use to do a school presentations and watching a class of 8 year olds go from 'eeeer it's 'orrible' (the toad not me) to all having held the toad and leaving at the end of the day saying 'Bye Mr Toad' and then as an after thought 'bye Gemma' always left me convinced the job was done and the kids would do a great job of winning over their parents.  You never know we might even get the next generation of herpers for RAUK too.You just have to be primed for the questions like 'do frogs have periods' and expect the teachers to be the most afraid of a grass snake More school presentations, more pond dipping sessions, all would help. It's true that it's a bit of a bind these days with rampant health and safety issues always cropping up but if kids are handling animals just make sure there is a loo next to the classroom and the teachers supervise the hand washing satisfied that one. I've always thought this was an area that would be very well suited to ARG members to get them involved in herp conservation, spread the word etc. You tell a class of 8 year olds that people are destroying 'Mr Toads' habitat and you just created a surprisingly militant group of people to counteract it! The trouble with adults these days is we all have so many different pressures in life getting truly 'involved' hardly ever happens. I've lost count of the number of times I've put in effort with apparently concerned adults, should have spent the time in the field alone instead as their 'contribution' was most likely to complain about the parking rather than actually get involved in herp conservation at any level. Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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Scale Senior Member Joined: 05 Dec 2010 No. of posts: 83  View other posts by Scale |
Posted: 20 Feb 2011 |
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Scale Senior Member Joined: 05 Dec 2010 No. of posts: 83 View other posts by Scale |
Posted: 20 Feb 2011 [QUOTE=GemmaJF] More school presentations, more pond dipping sessions, all would help. [/QUOTE] |
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Baby Sue Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2008 No. of posts: 412  View other posts by Baby Sue |
Posted: 23 Feb 2011 [QUOTE=ben rigsby]people still think garden ponds stocked with fish AND amphibians is ok [/QUOTE] I do hate to go off-topic but IÆm worried about the future of the frogs in my area cos I heard last week that East Riddlesden Hall have won a grant and theyÆve got loads of money now and theyÆre planning to put fish into their lake and get anglers there. Fish are gonna eat the frogs and toads ainÆt they? I wanted presents from lots of you. Snot fair that Ben Rigsby was the only one to send me Xmas & birthday presents. 
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Dave1812 Member Joined: 21 Sep 2008 No. of posts: 42  View other posts by Dave1812 |
Posted: 23 Feb 2011 Unfortunately you are correct in your assumption, the fish will eat the frog/toad/newt eggs and should they hatch will eat the young. As well as changing the balance of the water condition, reducing the potential food of any young to reach maturity. David Hind Wildlife Trust (Cumbria) - Member Solway AONB - Volunteer |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090 View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 23 Feb 2011 Toads should be OK with fish, if it's a lake is it mainly a toad population Sue? If so not so bad. Frogs and newts though, no hope they'll be gone. I wouldn't worry about going off topic btw, not many threads on here ever stay entirely on topic, I think it's the way we all like it. Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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AGILIS Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2007 No. of posts: 694  View other posts by AGILIS |
Posted: 24 Feb 2011 perhaps the whole reptile species should be renamed
such as the adder should be called the ziggyzagger bracken snake , like the grass snake name it sounds not so aggressive as Vipers and death adders as the public sum them up as nasty things waiting with fangs bared and ready to strike the unwary,and as Scale says ready to suck a cow dry. keithLOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID |
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Baby Sue Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2008 No. of posts: 412 View other posts by Baby Sue |
Posted: 24 Feb 2011 [QUOTE=Dave1812] Unfortunately you are correct in your assumption, the fish will eat the frog/toad/newt eggs and should they hatch will eat the young. As well as changing the balance of the water condition, reducing the potential food of any young to reach maturity. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=GemmaJF]Toads should be OK with fish, if it's a lake is it mainly a toad population Sue? If so not so bad. Frogs and newts though, no hope they'll be gone.[/QUOTE] How come toads are ok with fish and frogs ainÆt?
HereÆs the lake in summer.
HereÆs the lake in winter.
My house is one of them behind the lake and my small garden pond is at the front of my house away from the lake. My pond has only frogs in. IÆve seen frogs b*nking in the National Trusts grounds (rescued a couple from traffic) and Meanie Mummy said in the olden days newts were there but I ainÆt seen any but the gates are closed at night and I ainÆt never been trampling around looking for them in the undergrowth cos at the mo one side of the lake isnÆt open to the public (near my house where all the trees are), presumably that will change when they add the fish and meanie fishermen.
(Incidentally if youÆre wondering where I go frogging itÆs a few minutes away on the other side of the canal. (Past the main road.) Actually thereÆs only a few frogs there and I catch nearly all toads and they seem to just stay on the far side of the canal, not the side nearer my house.)
Are the National Trust allowed to do what they want with their own grounds?
I got banned from a forum for being off-topic talking about frogs once, I thought it was funny. I wanted presents from lots of you. Snot fair that Ben Rigsby was the only one to send me Xmas & birthday presents.
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Scale Senior Member Joined: 05 Dec 2010 No. of posts: 83 View other posts by Scale |
Posted: 24 Feb 2011 |
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Scale Senior Member Joined: 05 Dec 2010 No. of posts: 83 View other posts by Scale |
Posted: 24 Feb 2011 a |
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Baby Sue Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2008 No. of posts: 412 View other posts by Baby Sue |
Posted: 25 Feb 2011 Thanks for the info.
So they actually need a license for stocking a lake with fish?
Dunno if thereÆs Great Crested Newts in there.
Or maybe in the reeds.
& I ainÆt got a clue how deep the lake is, I was always under the assumption itÆs shallow cos it looks it from the sides, maybe IÆm wrong. IÆve found newts before whilst out toading and looked them up after and they looked to be common ones (think Meanie Mummy was responsible for running one over
IÆm willing to give the National Trust a grilling, I was gonna grill them over the safety of that massive tree towering over my house anyway, if it falls my way in strong winds IÆm dead. I might become a real pain in the *rse to them.
I wanted presents from lots of you. Snot fair that Ben Rigsby was the only one to send me Xmas & birthday presents.
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Scale Senior Member Joined: 05 Dec 2010 No. of posts: 83 View other posts by Scale |
Posted: 25 Feb 2011 b |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090 View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 25 Feb 2011 I would bet money that the only amphibians that would regularly use that lake are toads. You can rule out GCN due to the wildfowl. Fish won't touch toad taddies Sue, they taste awful. All the big toad populations are found in lakes with fish. They may be planning stocking that lake, but I would bet there are fish in it already. Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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Scale Senior Member Joined: 05 Dec 2010 No. of posts: 83 View other posts by Scale |
Posted: 26 Feb 2011 c |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090 View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 26 Feb 2011 Scale with respect, someone of my caliber simply knows that lake does not support a breeding population of GCN. Further, you shouldn't be encouraging Sue to torch a pond for GCN, she is not a licence holder! Of course there is always the possibility... but really it's all becoming a storm in a teacup This is not a professional assessment, I'm simply trying to reassure Sue she need not loose any sleep regarding the stocking of the lake with fish with regard to its impact on local amphibian populations. And attempts to 'cry newt' are unlikely to change anything  Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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Scale Senior Member Joined: 05 Dec 2010 No. of posts: 83 View other posts by Scale |
Posted: 26 Feb 2011 z |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090 View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 26 Feb 2011 I'm trying to help her also be saving any unnecessary concern. Torching is disturbance, plain and simple. Hence one holds a licence for torching, netting, bottle trapping... Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
- Does the public care? |
If IÆd have known they were planning to do that IÆd never have voted for them to win. 
Is toad spawn and baby toads less tasty to fish? 
IÆve seen plenty of toads in my back yard and they must breed in the lake, thereÆs nowhere else nearby for frogs and toads, just houses one side (where I am, they all have small gardens and no ponds), the main busy road, the river, and then fields. Lake frogs and newts are doomed then. 
Nobody else can have a say? 
& where do they get the license from? 
Like who enforces it?
), are Great Crested Newts widespread? Are they likely to be here in West Yorkshire? 
Or are they very rare indeed? 
If IÆm gonna contact them IÆd better do it soon, dunno when they plan to do all the work. All I know is that about a week ago they felled some trees and moved office staff into the building opposite me so theyÆre obviously already counting the money and making changes.